Brush Families of the British Isles

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Section 33
Webb, Freeman & Smedley

33.A
Webb

Laura Nellie Webb was my paternal grandmother; she married Arthur Wesley BRUSH in 1922. His history is in chapter 29.E . This chapter begins at the start of the 19th century with Thomas WEBB. There were several WEBB families in Coventry at this time and making the connections can be difficult. For example, there were three Webb couples named John and Sarah in Coventry in the 1851 census. The sequence described here is the conclusion reached by my father FWB. A more general look at Webb families in Coventry is contained in chapter 33.D .

A Thomas WEBB (who is believed to be my 4G-grandfather) married Hannah BARTON on 9 February 1802 at Holy Trinity church, Coventry.

On 13 December 1805 at St John the Baptist, Coventry a John WEBBE was baptised. The hard to read parish register entry shows the mother as Ann and seems to show the father as Thomas. My father, having looked at a large number of Brush register entries in Coventry, concluded that the parents of John were Thomas and Hannah who had married in 1802.

On 23 September 1829 at Holy Trinity, Coventry a John WEBB married Sarah CHESHIRE. This may have been the John baptised in 1805. An alternative suggestion, in the Ancestry tree of Zoe Webb tree says he married Sarah Smith 12 Oct 1818 at St John Coventry - FHL 502207 - but that would make him only 12.}.

As already mentioned, the 1851 census lists three couples each named John and Sarah WEBB. In 1841 and 1851 one of these couples lived at Gas Street, with husband John identified as a carpenter. Whether this couple is John WEBB and Sarah CHESHIRE from 1829 is not 100% certain but the fact they were in the same Holy Trinity Parish is supportive.

FWB's notes show John and Sarah having five children. The first being Thomas buried on 22 July 1830 but with no baptism - the burial just 10 months after the marriage. The second, John, baptised on 19 November 1831 and ied (buried?) 9 February 1832. The FHL record shows ???. The other three children are more verifiable. In the 1841 census three sons are listed : Richard age 8, John age 5 and Thomas age 2.

The entry is hard to find in Ancestry as it is listed under Holy Trinity rather than Coventry.

In the 1851 census only two sons are listed, Richard age 19 and John age 14. Father and both sons are all listed as carpenters. Their mother is listed as a ribbon weaver. John is shown as age 45 (equating to DOB 1805/6), Sarah as 44 (1806/7). John's age matches neatly to the 1805 baptism mentioned above.

Richard had been baptised on 20 February 1833 at Holy Trinity, Coventry. The Gas Street address and carpenter occupation make a perfect match. His age at marriage and at death support an 1833 birth. His story continues below.

John was also baptised at Holy Trinity on 24 September 1836. Another example of reusing a Christain name after the first child of that name had died. FWB's notes show that he married an Elizabeth and had a child Sarah Jane baptised on Christmas day 1864 with the address given as Gosford Street.

The fifth child,Thomas, was baptised on 10 October 1839 but died as an infant and was buried on 17 April 1842.

Richard WEBB, the oldest surviving child, was my 2G-Grandfather. He married Elizabeth MILES on 28 March 1857 at the Southport Street Register Office in Coventry (source: marriage certificate). He was 24, she 22. He is described as a carpenter journeyman and his father John as a Carpenter Master. His address is given as Bond Street in Coventry. The Miles family has been researched but is not yet included in BFBI.

On 23 August 1857 there is a baptism record for Ann Elizabeth with father Richard shown as a carpenter and the address as Far Gosford Street. Her birth is registered in Q3 1857. FWB has the date as 1858 which seems to be an error. She marries Walter Bailey on 26 September 1881 at St Peter's Coventry. Her fater is identifed as Richard, a carpenter and her address given as St George's Terrace. Her age is understated as 21 - the same as Walter's. There is a death record in Q2 1889 for an Ann Elizabeth Bailey in Coventry but her age is given as 27, which is some five years understated.

A son Richard was baptised on 10 May 1859 at St Peter's Coventry by Richard, a carpenter, and Elizabeth of Far Gosford Street. His birth was (from a later record) on 30 April 1859. A tree on Ancestry shows multiple descendants from Richard (though I do not agree with all the ideas in it).

In the 1861 census Richard and Elizabeth are at Charles Street Yard in the Holy Trinity parish of Coventry with two children; Elizabeth age 3 and Richard age 1. Richard senior's age is given as 28, which is exactly what we would expect, and his occupation remains a carpenter. Elizabeth's occupation seems to be a 'winder'.

A few months after the census Thomas WEBB was born on 22 (June?) 1861 at "1 Court 1 Charles Street" in Coventry - as shown on his birth certificate. The certificate identifies his mother as Elizabeth nee Miles.

On 7 December 1873 (another son Frank is baptised, this time at St Michaels church, with parents named as Richard a carpenter and Elizabeth of East Street. Frank's birth date is given as 7 August 1866 ( yes really - when he is seven). His birth was registered in Q4 1866. In 1881 he is listed as an apprentice printer compositor. In 1887 ( late may or early June), age 21, he marries Louisa Phebe CLIFFORD at St Michaels Coventry. His occupation is 'printer'. That is the last record I have of Frank until an entry in the register of deceased seamen in 1917. His age is given as 53 rather than the 51 which we would expect but his place of birth is given as Coventry . Another Frank webb was baptised around the same time at Berkswell - link to be explored

Strangely, Richard born 30 April 1859 and Thomas born 6 July 1864 are baptised on the same day in 1873 as Frank. Strange because Richard had already been baptised in 1859 and because the birth date for Thomas differs wildly from the birth certificate of 1861. At Thomas's marriage in 1892 he is said to be age 30 - which fits correctly to the 1861 birth - not to the 1864 date in the baptism register.

On 7 July 1869 Richard, carpenter, dies age 36 at 19 East Street. [Death certificate]

In 1871 Elizabeth is listed at 95 East Street Coventry as Head of the family and widowed. She and the eldest child Elizabeth age 14 both work as ribbon weavers. Richard 12, Thomas 10 and Frank 5 are all listed as scholars.

In 1881 widow Elizabeth is living at 8 Brook Street (in the Gosford street ward of Holy Trinity parish) and working as a silk weaver. Anne Elizabeth and Frank are still with her as is 6 year old nephew Herbert Miles.

In 1891, after the death of daughter Elizabeth Ann, Elizabeth is listed as a servant, house keeper, to Walter Bailey, widower, tailor - her son in law! Also in the household are her granddaughters Anne, Florence and Marian.

There is an army service record for Richard Webb of Trinity Parish, Coventry joining up in 1879 age 20. A good fit. In the 1881 census age 21 he is a private in the 52nd Foot regiment and, with many of his colleagues, a patient at the Fort Pitt hospitaland barracks at Rochester in Kent. He is not a good soldier - tried and imprisoned for three years and one year. His mother is identifed as Elizabeth. He is discharged in 1886 after serving in Egypt. There is a note on his record saying that his brother Thomas was serving in ? 21 B.de? Thomas Webb serves until 1891. It looks as if Richard married Harriet Westwood on 5 Septemeber 1886 at St Mark's Coventry around he time of his discharge. TH he FHL record lists his father as Richard. Andthat he then became a house painter, living in Newbold on Avon in Warwickshure at 1891 with three young children - but further check need this was him..

Thomas Webb

Thomas enlists on 20 November 1879 at Derby, his occupation is given as labourer. His enlistment is with the 26th Brigade (unsure what this is).At 1881 he (thomas?) is at Chatham as a bugler with the 52nd regt. Also a bugler later in his service. On 10 March 190 he is "reverted to Pte", Later that year he is twice conviced and imprisoned for drunlkenness. He had previously been imprisoned for attempted desertion. He is discharged on 27 October 1891. More detail at https://www.fold3.com/image/590620389/webb-thomas-page-4-uk-royal-hospital-chelsea-pensioner-service-records-1760-1925 . Bugler from 87. Served in Malta, Egypt and Sudan. His next of kin is listed as maother Elizabeth Webb, Greyfriars lane, Coventy. The full army record for Thomas is covered in a separate section 33E

On 16 April 1892 at Wesley Chapel (a Wesleyan Methodist chapel), Warwick Lane, Coventry Thomas marries Sarah Hellen Freeman, my Great-Grandparents. This was the same location as the 1858 marriage of Thomas Freeman and Mary Eliza Hobbs. The marriage certificate shows Thomas as a journeyman painter and Sarah Hellen as a silk weaver. Thomas's age is given as 30 which fits correctly with the 1861 birth record. Both have Coventry addresses - Thomas's was 1 Court, Hertford Street. One the witnesses to the marriage was William Webb, who I have not yet identified.

At 1891 Sarah Helen had been the head of a household with brother William Henry following the death of their mother. There is a death registration for their mother in Q1 1891.

My father made enquiries in 1984 of the archivist of the Methodist Coventry Mission circuit who advised that the Warwick Lane chapel baptism records contained no Webb, Freeman or Miles baptisms. He did identify that the Miles name appeared in the baptism records of Bell Green Methodist chapel around 1860/70 and Webb at 1848 in Bedworth near Coventry.

Thomas and Sarah Hellen had two children, my grandmother Laura Nellie WEBB on 15 January 1894 in Leicester and William Burnal John WEBB on 4 December 1898 in Coventry. His baptism record on 14 December 1898 says his father Thomas was a painter and gives his mother's name as 'Lellie". Their address is 1c 8r Hertford Street.(or 1 Court 8 house?). Burnal is an unusual forename. It was the maiden name of Sarah's mother Marie Helen (discussed in section 33A.

At 1901 Sarah is listed as the head of the family, working as a ribbon weaver. Thomas has disappeared and we have no clue of where he went, or why. I can find no traceof him in the 1901 or 1911 censuses. My father's notes say (with no qualification) that "Thomas deserted his family". I belive it is likely that this was information he had been given first hand by his mother Laura Nellie. Sarah and the two chidren are living at room 8 in 1 Court on Hertford Street, Coventry. Although my grandmother lived until I was 24 I cannot recall her saying anything of her childhood - which appears to have been fairly grim. An omission which illustrates perfectly the need to interview elderly relatives while they are still with us.

By the 1911 census Sarah Hellen and Burnal (or Bernal?)are still living in 1 Court in Coventry but are now in house 3 with three rooms - which they share with a boarder. Sarah is a silk Weaver at (the/a) silk factory. Silk weaving had been an important and dominant industry in Coventry for centuries but seems to have been well into its decline by 1900. The big name, who may have been her employer, were the Cash family. My father's notes (from where?) state that at 1913 they were at 4 court 3 house in Cox street and in 1918 at 3 court 4 Cox street. Sarah Helen dies on 19 April 1928 (from FWB scroll).

Laura Nellie was not with them in 1911. She was then living as the adopted daughter of Fred and Mary Elson at Meeting House Lane in Berkswell in Warwickshire, assisting in the family business. There is lots of information about the Elson family in my father's autobiography. How and why she was adopted I am sad to say that I do not know. There had beena Webb fmily in Berkswell but if there was a link i has not yet ben found.

While she was there she met my grandfather Arthur Wesley BRUSH, who she married in 1922, as covered in the mainline story of the Brush family in chapter xx.x. After her husband's death in 194? she remained in the family home at Palmers Green in North London. From sometime between then and the early sixties she shared the house with a Mrs Postlethwaite. Eventually, in 196? she moved to live with my parents (and me and my sister) at Radlett and then moved wth us to Berkhamsted where she died at home on 4 April 1979.

Her brother Burnal became a Salvation Army Officer and married Irene Florence Warriner Vincent in 1926. They had a son Roy (born and died in 1927) and a daughter Joy Elizabeth WEBB on 27 August 1932, who also became a Salvation Army officer focused on music and reached the UK pop charts with her 1960's group The Joy Strings. Irene died in 1973 and Burnal in 1978. There is a lot of publicly available material on Joy, summarised in chapter 33.E . She died on 1 October 2023.

RedcarChapel.jpg from https://www.hidden-teesside.co.uk/2013/05/09/wesleyan-chapel-demolition-west-terrace-redcar/ Captain Burnal Webb was the Salvation Army officer in Redcar

Burnall's wife Irene Florence was the daughter of David Henry Warriner, a seaman, & Elizabeth Ann OUTRAM who had married in 1893 in Liverpool. David Warriner died in 1897 and Elizabeth remarried in 1902 to Ernest Vincent. They had two children Arthur and Winifred. Arthur Vincent had two daughters Linda and Jennifer and Jennifer had (3? children - Philippa and two others) Winifred had two children Janet & Nigel; Janet had two children Alison and Gill and Nigel two sons Simon and Daniel.

To return to the Freeman story and to the mother of Sarah Helen. She was born in Buckingham in 1836 and baptised as Marie Helen HOBBS. Her baptism is one of the most perfect records a geneologist could hope for and discloses that Burnell was the maiden name of Marie Helen's mother.

This extract from the Methodist register of baptisms identifies not only her date of birth and the names of both her parents but also her mother's parents. Plus the name of the surgeon who attended her birth and another relative who was present at the birth.

At 1841 the family is living at Red Lion Row in Buckingham. It includes not just Marie Helen but also an older brother George.

George Burnel HOBBS had received a Methodist baptism in 1832 in Buckingham. In 1851 he was a carpenters apprentice living with Carpenter and Farrier Robert Holt at London Road Buckingham. He married Sarah Molineux in Ettingshall, Staffordshire and had a daughter Maria Helen Hobbs in nearby Bilston in 1856. Was he the magnet which pulled his sister Maria Helen and her husband Thomas Freeman to Bilston? Only the use of the Burnell family name enables us to securely make these links from county to county.

And from country to country. John Thomas Freeman, the brother of Sarah Helen emigrated to Australia and also named on of his sons Burnal. Contact has been maintained by my family over the years, and to this day, with one branch of the Australian cousins, descended from Thomas Freeman and Marie Helen nee Hobbs.

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Taking the story back a generation, the most likely baptism of George Burnell seemed to be 29 Dec 1805 at Hardwick,Buckingham,England, the son of James Burnell and Hannah (FHL FILM NUMBER:919230). BUT.... I cannot find their marriage but

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